Science Fiction. Sexual Harassment. Missing Stairs.

[leahbobet]

I don't often get the treatment other colleagues describe at SFF conventions.  It's been a good while since I was harassed.

I don't really know why.

I have theories.  I came into prodom somewhat protected -- always around a peer group that was very connected and very assertive.  I am, in public, quite reserved; to the point where I'm probably not that Friendly Nice Author being nice in public.  I'm six feet tall.  My face has never learned to hide the things it's thinking.  I have had long-standing troubles with people trying to violate my boundaries in the past, and now when someone does so, the thing my face thinks is murder.

Honestly, I have no fucking clue why I'm so rarely a target.  And why I've been able to deal with what comes my way, so far, quite handily the second the dial hits murder.  It gives me, I'm sure, a skewed perspective on the problem.

Because I know who many of the people who do this shit are.  Rene Walling took me flat by surprise, but Jim Frenkel was someone I've known not to be around for years.  I have a whole list in the back of my head, passed ear to ear and woman writer to woman writer.  Just in case.

#

Okay, no: wait.  There's one guy.

A local conrunner sort, who seemed to get a little mad at me back in 2004, when I was a baby writer and made politely clear I didn't need his creepy grandfatherly guidance to find my way around my own profession.  Every few years or so he makes public comments about my tits in professional spaces.  Or tries to kiss my hand, and when I take it away, calls me bitch. Or grabs my friend's ass in a convention hallway.  Or throws a full-on tantrum because he would like a book signed, and I am daring to spend a few minutes mid-conversation with another (woman) colleague.

And then I remind him with my face and my voice and my height: murder. And he kind of skitters behind a rock for the next few years, "punishing" me with his shunning, being gloriously not my problem again.  I've been telling myself for a while, since the last time, that the next time he makes a false move I am going to finally bring the hammer down on that asshole.

This is, I realize, a missing stair situation.  I know how to deal with this guy.  He's not, to me, a major problem.

He's not a major problem to me.

Mary Robinette Kowal posted today about not posting Jim Frenkel's name in connection to his sexual harassment of Elise Matthesen at Wiscon, and all the reasons she hesitated -- all the reasons people hesitate.  They hold true.  I have not made noise about this guy because I work at the bookstore, and the bookstore maintains itself as neutral space within the community, high above everyone's slapfights, for good or ill -- and I'm starting to think it ill.  I have not made noise because he's involved with an award, and I'm pretty sure that if/when I do say something, I shut myself off from that award forever, because petty people do petty, petty things.

I have not made noise because it has, to date, just not been enough of a problem for me.

(When he grabbed my friend's ass I came very, very close.  But it was her call.)

No; that's not the whole thing.

Really, I have not made noise because I am afraid that if I do, everyone knew and no one will care.

#

I am thinking about the things I knew about Jim Frenkel.  I'm thinking about Elise, who I admire and respect and call friend, and how maybe if we all had a little more in the guts department when it came to the things we all know, she wouldn't have had to deal with this.

I'm thinking about benign cowardice, the not my problem sort of too busy and but I need that professional opportunity cowardice, and how it is probably the worst kind going.

I'm thinking about noise.

I know why we handle this the way we traditionally have: By warning other women in the industry who not to be near when they're drunk; who not to get stuck in the elevator next to.  But I am getting to think that we're doing ourselves a disservice, here.  Because there's a dual message that comes in, when you say Just between you and me.

It's that if you stick my head up and lay down the truth about what this guy does, everyone in the local prodom and fandom will mutter and shuffle their feet and look away and oh, look at what time it is.

I tire of our collective cowardice.  A community that does not have your back is no damn community at all.

#

A parting thought.  The thought I'm turning over tonight, privately:

Y'know what?  If I injure my career over reporting a harasser?  So fucking what.

I did not get into this profession to make it on the backs of my colleagues.  And I did not get into this profession to sell my morals alongside my books.

Comments

[vschanoes.livejournal.com]

And I did not get into this profession to sell my morals alongside my books.

For one thing, it doesn't pay enough. I've always said that if I were going to sell out, I would get my value.

Good post.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

I've always said that if I were going to sell out, I would get my value.

Hah. Well said.

[gryphynshadow.livejournal.com]

There is a phenomenon called "bystander effect" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) where, the more people there are to witness an event, the less likely it is that any one individual will step forward to do anything about it. I think the bystander effect stops a lot of people from speaking up, and I think it's part of what's behind the fear that 'everyone knows'...

Because everyone does know, and just thinks that surely someone else will take care of it.

The key thing to keep in mind, once you know about the bystander effect, is that since multiple witnesses keep people from acting, you, as a person who knows there is this effect, must therefore act. See an injustice? Act to correct it. Help the victim, give first aid, call for help, toss a bucket of water on the fire. Because now that you know how a crowd of witnesses subtly effects the odds of any other person acting...

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

Interesting link -- thank you.

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

"Really, I have not made noise because I am afraid that if I do, everyone knew and no one will care."

Yep. That happens.

I also have pledged for years that every, every time this stuff happens to me, I will name the perpetrator in public. The more I say that, the firmer I feel in the conviction to do it. So, with you there.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

We need to make that not happen. We need to, at least, support each other.

[badgerbag.livejournal.com]

Right on!!

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

I'm somewhat like you, in that it's been years since I've had serious harassment. Oh yeah, there's some flirting going on, but no one's crossed a boundary and I make my boundaries Pretty. Damn. Clear. Respectful appreciation is one thing, leching is another.

Then again, I'm in my mid-50s, am a middle school teacher, and play with horses. At cons that allow it, I often have a nice little poiniard hanging from my belt. I have no qualms about calling someone out using my Middle School Teacher Voice and getting all alpha mareish if they give me flack, at least for me.

But now I wonder if I'm just not seeing it, or what. I'm sure I've lost opportunities because I'm outspoken and have firm boundaries. I wonder just how many opportunities I've lost that I don't know about?

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

That...yeah. Is ever the question.

Though at this point? I don't want opportunities that ask more than I'm giving of me. Anything that I have to pay blood for can suck it.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Though at this point? I don't want opportunities that ask more than I'm giving of me. Anything that I have to pay blood for can suck it.

What you said, absolutely. I've decided that I value the ability to have agency more than I want any opportunity that requires me to sell my soul.

[oneminutemonkey.livejournal.com]

I care.
A lot of people care.
Together, maybe we can all help to fix it.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

I sincerely hope we can.

[katfeete.livejournal.com]

I can only think of one incident that I could even come close to calling harassment at any of the cons I've been to. I don't know why. Some of it's undoubtably that I am always at cons with Dan and, more lately, the kidlet. Some of it's luck: I'm not outgoing, I'm not small, and I've been told by enough people that I come across as intimidating that I can't dismiss them all as on crack. Some of it's the social obliviousness: I still miss a lot of nuances in social situations, especially crowd ones, and it's likely some of the bazillion comments I filed under "that's weird" were predatory. In a weird way it's protected me. It is not true, that thing we're told (and occasionally tell ourselves) about harassers not meaning it, not understanding: it's more true to say that, consciously or not, they use harassing behaviors to test boundaries and check defenses. Retreat is invitation; attack means retreat into self-reassurance (it's okay, I didn't do anything wrong, she misunderstood, she's one of those feminazi bitches who takes offense at everything, I didn't do anything wrong....) No response is, apparently, not something people prep for. I have in retrospect had several conversations where a slightly off comment was followed by the commenter getting flustered, babbling, and finally backing out of the conversation and vanishing that, yeah. I wonder what conversation I was supposed to be having there?

These are kinda shitty defenses, though. Especially since if they fail? I am totally going to do what I did with the one unpleasant incident: nothing. I'm one of those girls, the sort that talk themselves around to the point where really, it's all my fault, I misunderstood or sent the wrong signals or it wasn't really bad bad, not harassment which is a Big Thing that no one ever defines for you but probably, surely, is more than someone standing too close, saying edge-of-uncomfortable things, squeezing my shoulder for too long, making me feel sick to my stomach because I want them to go away so bad. No one's saying anything, after all. And I'd feel dumb explaining why it bothered me. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I don't want to make a fuss. I don't want to be one of those people.

Thank god for that accidental mix of height and obliviousness, because without it I'd be toast.

And yeah, for the record, did not know anything about Jim Frenkel. Never been warned against anyone in fandom except Harlan Ellison and Larry Niven, though my chances of encountering either are thankfully remote. The grapevine? Really not reliable.

Not to mention, thinking back to that single problem guy (I don't think I ever even knew his name): it wasn't quite my first con, but it was damned close. No grapevine would have helped. And while likely the Klingons would have booted the guy if I'd said anything -- Klingons are good folk -- that other chance, that I would be labeled the outsider making trouble, was simply too terrifying. And entirely real. As social monkeys we are conditioned to close ranks against the interloper, and as potentially interloping monkeys we know to keep quiet and keep our heads down until we've got some acceptance, some sense of how these monkeys carry themselves and what is and isn't okay.

There's always a me in the room. I can't think of a con I've been to where I haven't seen a girl hugging the curtains at a room party, listening in on other people's conversations and trying to figure out if the food's really free. And she's not going to know about Jim, or Harlan, or Larry. She's not going to know it's okay to speak up either. Everyone knows, but she's not an everyone.

Which is a long-winded way of saying yeah, I think we need this stuff out in the open. However hard it may be.

[mcurry.livejournal.com]

> I can't think of a con I've been to where I
> haven't seen a girl hugging the curtains at
> a room party, listening in on other people's
> conversations and trying to figure out if the
> food's really free. And she's not going to know
> about Jim, or Harlan, or Larry. She's not going
> to know it's okay to speak up either. Everyone
> knows, but she's not an everyone.

Yes, this. Having the only source of warning be a whispernet means people who aren't already part of it get no warning. I'd heard about Frenkel for awhile, even before his efforts at World Fantasy in Columbus, but I wouldn't expect every person he might decide to menace to have been forewarned.

[asatomuraki.livejournal.com]

All this stuff has made an impression on me. I've had those experiences in my life, though not so much at cons because I don't go that often. I was catcalled at in the hospital parking lot after my mother died. I've been chased through a parking lot by a guy later arrested trying to kidnap a lady using a can of lighter fluid and a lighter. Finding out this stuff about cons was disheartening.

For a while, it put me off any desire to be part of the genre community, even though the stories I write tend to be SFF. I have put a lot of effort into writing, and very little into trying to sell stuff. It was kind of like thinking that your best case scenario is to be a second class citizen in a country you used to want to move to.

But after reading this and other opinions today... I feel more like it's something I can do. I just don't have much to lose. I'm kind of over wanting to sit at the cool kids' table, and knowing you can walk away is empowering.
See more on Know Your Meme

ETA: I mean that in the sense that being less invested in having the good opinion of people in a group makes it easier to break fingers that stray to places they have no business being. If you kind of accept that you'll never be an SFF all-star (as I suppose I have), there is little reason be nice to people who don't deserve it. Not as in "not giving a f**k" about people being harassed. It's late and I'm punchy. :p

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

I just don't have much to lose. I'm kind of over wanting to sit at the cool kids' table, and knowing you can walk away is empowering.

...I do wonder, now, how much of my own bravado is a function of me having been over in YA a bunch, and pondering writing a thriller, and knowing there are places I can happily work where Jim Frenkel and Harlan Ellison and their ilk are just the sound of a fly buzzing in one's ear.

Feels good, doesn't it? *g*

[asatomuraki.livejournal.com]

Yes it does! Also, I got the shivers just thinking about a Leah Bobet thriller! Oh my stars and garters, this needs to happen.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

...okay, that made me feel really good about possibly hopping to that project. Thank you. So much. :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

Applauds.
We are all conditioned not to make a fuss: it's a piece of the same oppression that lets me think they can grope and harass. It's not cowardice when we're silent, it's protective covering. Which is warped and wrong and... Well, it shows up how hateful this culture can be.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

*nod* I see where you are coming from, and appreciate it. I think today, though, I need to not excuse myself for what I feel is a failure to live up to my own standards.

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

That makes perfect sense.
Take care: you're a fine person, you know.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

Thank you. And likewise. :)

[deakat]

Thank you for speaking up.

... mutter and shuffle their feet and look away and oh, look at what time it is.

Huh. I had no idea that was a thing; it's exactly what happened when I disclosed to my family.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

I am pretty sure it's a thing. One of the worse things in my world is awkward people awkwardly trying to make something Not Their Problem.

[rosefox]

I'll be glad to support you regardless of whether you decide to name this guy. And I really hope you do name him, and help your other colleagues stay safe.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

Appreciated, thank you. I had a good talk with someone else in the community about it this afternoon, and...yeah. Sigh.

Just so I'm aware in general: How does Readercon's harassment policy view persons who engage in unacceptable behaviour in other spaces?

[rosefox]

You can always talk to a member of the safety team if you feel unsafe around anyone at the convention because of their past behavior toward you or someone else, and we'll do what we can to provide support.

If a program participant is someone who you happen to know has a history of sketchy or harassing behavior, you can contact the program chair (program@readercon.org), explain the situation, and suggest that the person not be invited back.

Beyond that, there's no formal provision for considering someone's conduct elsewhere.

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

Good to know, and thank you.

[themachinestops.livejournal.com]

I've not been to a ton of conventions, what with the hiatus and all, but I have also never really had a problem with creepers personally. I always kind of thought that the reason is my utter lack of femininity. To such men, femininity equals weakness. Although I do also wonder, like katfeete, how many harassing situations I simply didn't interpret as such, because they were "just words."

This means, though, that for whatever reason I have never been privy to the "whispernet" and I think it really sucks when people come forward saying "oh yeah, that guy's a creeper, we've all known that for YEARS" when hi, I didn't know it for years, and neither do a lot of other women. I know that so many women are afraid to come forward for all the reasons MRK listed in her post, but sunlight is the best disinfectant. Even if my chances of being targeted by creepers are low, I would still like to know, because I don't want to work with these men.

I'd missed Elise's post on Jim Frankel, but...

[dlandon.livejournal.com]

Do you know why this infuriates me?

A few years ago (memory is foggy) a bunch of professional women writers *did* speak up. A certain editor at Tor collected stories of Frankel's harrassment from those of us willing to come forward and share information through our agents, etc. She presented this documentation to the powers-that-be at Tor and they did...nothing.

Abso-fucking-lutely nothing. My agent was livid to the point of spitting curse words that these women put their reputations and careers on the line to out him and that Tor's response was a shrug and a pat on the head.

IMO, that makes this worse. Because he clearly hasn't stopped. And women did speak up. With the exception of supporting friends I haven't bought a Tor book since.
- D

[c-crockett.livejournal.com]

I only heard about this post today, Leah.

I know exactly who you are talking about, he has verbally abused me in public. I was astonished by how shaken it left me.

As a local con-runner I hope you will decide to name names, it makes it much easier to take action. I don't think you will have much if any problem with being believed on this. He's known to be a tremendous asshole, and I'm far from the only--or most senior--con-runner he's been abusive to. Some of the people he's treated like that went on to be Worldcon division heads. [And he switched to ass-kissing mode as if the previous verbal abuse had never happened. In fact, he seems to forget these incidents immediately.]

I agree that the grapevine is not working. I am _extremely_ well-connected, I've been in fandom since 1982, and have been running cons nearly that long, I know everybody, and as someone who is frequently doing the last shift of the night in consuite, or running a party, etc., I clearly have need to know re harassers, yet I only heard about the Frenkel issue last November. If the grapevine doesn't work for me, it isn't going to help the neos who are most likely to get targeted by the creeps.

I'm on the SFContario committee, I'm also an officer of the corporation that it operates under, and we are serious about dealing with harassment of all types. The link to this post has been forwarded to our chair, Marah Searle-Kovacevic, however anyone can raise the issue with any of our committee. Leah, if you or anyone else wants to talk further with me about it, my email address is crockett@eol.ca

Our harassment policy is on our website, http://sfcontario.ca/about-us/faq/what-sfcontarios-member-behaviour-policy

I have signed Scalzi's anti-harassment petition, and I have publicly promised that I will not work on nor attend any cons that do not have a harassment policy.

Thank you for writing about this, Leah.

Catherine Crockett

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

Catherine--

Thank you; the link and actions are much appreciated. The thing I wonder is, if this is something we're generally aware of in the Toronto SFF community, why's he still attending our cons?

It's a sincere question: What needs to happen to revoke this individual's ability to purchase memberships?

Thanks,

~L

[c-crockett.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the delay in replying. My mom has been in hospital and it has been difficult to get anything requiring much thought done.

We did discuss this issue at the SFContario meeting today.

I don't know what's been tried and not worked. If people have formally complained and nothing has happened, that's a different issue from 'everyone knows he's an ass'. I discussed the issue with my conchair, at the time, and what we agreed on was that if he did anything to or around me that I felt was inappropriate, he'd be kicked out. The event he berated me at was not a convention, FWIW.

If anyone would like to make a formal complaint about anything he [or anyone else] has done at an SFContario, please contact our committee. We appreciate getting a head's up.

I am not in a position to speak for other cons. I would be interested to know if anyone has complained formally to their committees, and what has happened as a result.

Also, while I was aware of his nasty habit of screaming at people, I had not heard anything about sexual harassment before seeing this post. [The verbal abuse seems to be equal opportunity.]

Marah and I talked about this just now, and she has an additional question: what can we do that would make you feel safe? It's hard to actually kick the guy out or ban him unless we have a complaint about his behaviour _at SFContario_, but there are a lot of other things we can do, including but not limited to keeping him off programming, keeping a close watch on him, etc.

Thanks,
Catherine Crockett

[leahbobet.livejournal.com]

And likewise, sorry for the delay. I've been on a hard deadline crunch for...about six weeks now, and other things all slid off the table.

(I hope your mom's doing better.)

Thank you very much for the update, and Marah's dropped me a line as well. And I'll inquire with people I know about venues where sexual harrassment occurred.