[personal profile] leahbobet
Having slept on this, I have decided that exhorting people to talk about business for the team and praising those who do makes me a special kind of douchebag if I sit in my bunker and don't. I, as always, have no desire to be a feminine hygiene product. So today you will be treated to:

The Saga of Why Leah Doesn't Deal With Prime/Wildside Publications

With help from the copious records she keeps

Back in October 2006, when Clarkesworld was a fairly new market paying ten cents a word, I figured I'd give them a try with a story. I waited a little, and then instead of hearing from Nick, got an IM from Sean Wallace (my IM is fairly findable if you look) saying that Nick had passed the story on to him for Fantasy Magazine (which was then a print publication paying 2-5 cents a word. This, I will note, is highly irregular. The ettiquette for passing someone's story to another editor seems to be, well, don't. Recommend the author submit to that editor instead. Or if you do, you ask the author for permission first.

So I was a bit steamed, but Fantasy wanted the story, and I recall having a half-agonized conversation in a coffeeshop before a Waking City event as to whether I should turn down the chance to crack a new market because of my irritation over that ettiquette breach.

Ultimately I decided to take the sale, and woe unto me that I did, because that was the beginning of the Saga.

Skip forward a few months; "Furnace Room Lullaby" is being included in the fifth issue of the magazine, which is coming out pretty quickly, in December 2006. I'm asked for bio and photo information three times (it's lost twice) before I get any sense that it's done. Between these things falls the World Fantasy Convention, at which Sean solicits a novel from me. As I'm working with these guys partially on a "what harm short stories" basis -- knowing personally someone who got screwed hard by Prime on her two collections -- I put him off. Let's see how the short story goes, says me. Throughout this drama, Sean is chasing me for book proposals and IMing me to solicit gossip, occasionally about my personal life.

This makes me uncomfortable, but it is not business and sometimes people are odd in this business. I limit my IM availability to him and mostly shrug it off. A second story is bought by Fantasy, "A Month of Sundays", and one placed with the Japanese Dreams anthology, accepted in a land speed record time that makes me sure to this day it wasn't read the whole way through.

I start getting concerned when reviews of the story, in that issue of the magazine, hit two major review outlets. And I still don't have a contract. I get on the horn, and Sean is sending out contracts and payments; the issue is already out. I make my discomfort with the publishing without a contract known, even though the discomfort is now outright anger. Sean is very sad that he has screwed up, but does not in future take steps to correct this.

I get the contract the first week of February (the magazine came out end of December/beginning of January).

It's a really, really bad contract.

The rights in the contract do not match the rights advertised at that time on Fantasy Magazine's public guidelines. That approaches fraud. They want all rights, all languages, for two cents a word. There is no reversion date. There is no statement of legal jurisdiction, which is a standard feature of any contract anywhere. For those not familiar with short fiction contracts, this is highly nonstandard and borders on abusive. I get on the horn to Sean (this will happen a lot). He says it's all Betancourt's fault and enacts IM spy drama so Betancourt won't see him typing. I drop the f-word (fraud).

I revise the contract to standard specs, and send it back.

Time passes. And passes. Seven weeks, in fact.

And I'm e-mailing and IMing, and I'm bugging, and I can't seem to get a copy of the countersigned contracts back to make this an actual official legal agreement. Sean, who was more than happy to talk to me before to the point of calling me "dear", which is really professionally inappropriate considering we are not friends, is now avoiding me.

I am now very upset, and very afraid that given all the fast ones they've tried to pull above, and given all the horror stories I heard from authors I know, like, and respect when I "came out" as someone who was having contract and payment trouble with Prime/Wildside, that I'm never going to get those countersigned documents and they're gonna pull a fast one regarding rights somewhere quiet, where I can't see it or do anything about it until too late.

So I pull the other two stories and get on the horn to Griefcom.


Griefcom are fast-moving and lovely people. My countersigned contracts are wrenched out of the publisher's hands. I am assured that things are going to get dealt with by several people at Prime/Wildside in the wake of my pulling the stories and telling people at that company (other ones) why. Many promises are made.

I, however, have had enough, and do not go back.

At my last intelligence, which is a few months back, that contract was still being used. Fantasy Magazine's submission guidelines still advertise a purchase of First North American Serial Rights, despite that being impossible as they are now a web publication. The near-fraudulent issue of claiming one rights buy and substituting another in contract has not been addressed, and it has been over a year and a half since this all went down.

Sean still occasionally IMs me until I block him, shortly after the contracts are back in my hand.

That was my experience with Prime Books/Wildside Press publications.

I still have a reprint pending there, in Best New Fantasy 2, but that anthology has been delayed for a year and a half as well, and I expect it will never see print. Sean guaranteed me and one other contributor this past weekend that it was going to proofs this summer. We will see.


In sum: I don't know if the Prime/Wildside business model runs on, to be perfectly blunt, malice or incompetence. But as concerns my personal business, I don't care anymore. This was beyond the pale of what I've ever seen in a short fiction market, and it is not in my business plan to touch hot stoves twice.

Your take-home lessons:

1) This only got as far as it did because I did stupid things. I cannot emphasize this enough. My gut was giving me warnings about this person's attempt to assume friendship, to get in my personal space in order to get things from me, about the delays and avoidance and sketchy practices that could have been just a one-time oopsie, and I disregarded them. Never do that. Listen to your belly. It knows about publishing.

2) Do not conduct business in IM. Take any business conducted in IM to e-mail, which has a timestamped and traceable record.

3) And for that matter, keep all your business correspondence. You may need to make a case to Griefcom one day.


I no longer deal with any Prime/Wildside publication, have turned down their solicitation of a novel, and do not advise those who solicit my opinion to touch this publisher with a ten-foot pole.

As always, my experience is mine, and your business is yours, and I am not telling you what to do. But I hope this is a useful datapoint for those of you considering doing business with this publisher, or any publisher. Tell your children not to do what I have done. You'll save yourself a lot of grief, and you don't really want to be in the exclusive club of people, who as Cisco put it, got Primed.

Date: 2008-07-25 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachel-swirsky.livejournal.com
Hey, just for the record, here's the rights language from the contract for my most recent Fantasy Magazine publication:

2. This use of the Work by the Publisher entails the assignment of First World Rights, for exclusive publication in the English language, for a period limited to six months from first publication.

3. (a) The Author further grants the Publisher the right to nonexclusively archive the Work online as long as the Publisher maintains the Fantasy Magazine website.


3. (b) If at any time the Author wishes to withdraw the Work from nonexclusive archival publication online, the Author must notify the Publisher in writing. The Publisher will accede to the Author’s request within 30 days from receipt of notification.


4. For the rights granted to the Publisher above in Clauses 1, 2, and 3, the Author will receive a payment in the sum of $(redacted), which will be paid on publication. Payment will be made either by check or by PayPal to the Author’s designated PayPal address: ____________________________________________________


5. The Author grants to the Publisher the nonexclusive, worldwide English-language right to republish the Work or cause the Work to be republished in any book or periodical anthology consisting of material at least 50% of which originally appeared in Fantasy Magazine, and which includes works by more three or more contributors.


6. For the rights granted to the Publisher above in Clause 5, the Author will receive a payment in the sum of $(redacted), which will be paid no later than thirty (30) days after initial publication. ("Initial publication" being defined as the date on which the publication is made available for sale to the public.)

8. All rights not expressly granted by the Author reside exclusively with the Author.

*

The payment for this sale was very prompt.

I certainly don't blame you for avoiding this publisher, and have heard similar horror stories from other authors. I'm just speaking for the record on my recent personal experience.

Date: 2008-07-25 05:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachel-swirsky.livejournal.com
(By the by, I don't really know the etiquette for making contracts public. I just figured that since the rights language was in question, it wouldn't be a breach of confidence to make the rights language I've received public, while omitting other parts of the contract.

If I've erred in ignorance, I apologize, and will edit my last comment asap.)

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Date: 2008-07-25 05:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tanaise.livejournal.com
Yeah, this is the contract that I got in November as well. Not the best I've seen, but better than the original by far.

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From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com - Date: 2008-07-25 11:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2008-07-25 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Rachel -- thank you. Datapoints are good, and the last I had heard re: Fantasy contracts was about six months back?

Date: 2008-07-25 05:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] secritcrush.livejournal.com
They want all rights, all languages, for two cents a word

I've had my problems with prime as well, but when you say they want all rights, that implies to me that they are buying the copyright and I don't recall that from the contracts I received - rather they wanted first world rights (not north american) and nonexclusive reprint rights.

Which is correct in your case?

Date: 2008-07-25 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] secritcrush.livejournal.com
Er, i should say that yes, they wanted to buy rights not expressed in their guidelines.

Date: 2008-07-25 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Sorry, I typed this fast this morning and was unclear. I believe it was World Rights, although I will check that when I get home to my contract (at work now).

Date: 2008-07-25 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zhai.livejournal.com
Holy bait-and-switch, Batman.

Listen to your belly. It knows about publishing.

Truer words...

Date: 2008-07-25 05:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oldcharliebrown.livejournal.com
A quick statement: publishing experience is never static. We are constantly improving, and constantly making new mistakes. The trick is to learn. Sometimes I don't learn fast enough. But I have, and have done, promised to do better. That's the best anyone can do.

Date: 2008-07-25 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] secritcrush.livejournal.com
Well, no you could promise to modify the contracts of those who got the rights grabby one.

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Date: 2008-07-25 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tithenai.livejournal.com
Thanks for posting this, Leah.

Date: 2008-07-25 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
We aim to do the public service.

Date: 2008-07-25 05:47 pm (UTC)
ext_7025: (Default)
From: [identity profile] buymeaclue.livejournal.com
This, I will note, is highly irregular. The ettiquette for passing someone's story to another editor seems to be, well, don't.

Bit of an unusual circumstance in this case; Sean co-edits (co-edited?) Clarkesworld.

I air no opinions on the appropriateness or not of the passing-along. Just information, for whatever its worth.

Date: 2008-07-25 05:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rachel-swirsky.livejournal.com
Personally, it really doesn't bug me. I think there's sometimes passing from Clarkesworld to Fantasy to Weird Tales, or at least that's what I think I remember having heard.

When PodCastle was starting out, we inherited some amount of slush from Escape Pod, but EP, PC and PP now handle all their slush totally separately. Steve made this policy because he worried writers wouldn't like having their work passed among the 'casts. As a writer it wouldn't bug me, but there does seem to precedent that it bugs some people.

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Date: 2008-07-25 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] samhenderson.livejournal.com
In my experience, it happens among editors who are working together anyway. Personally I appreciate it, because it usually means a swift response from a market that I may have to wait for otherwise.

If it significantly held up a story in limbo, or if the second market presumed permission to publish and went ahead and did it, of course that would be a different story.

Date: 2008-07-25 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
*nod* Thank you. That may make it a smidge more okay, but I'm still not comfortable with that particular practice. In the "I submitted this here, not there" way.

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Date: 2008-07-25 05:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] veejane.livejournal.com
And here everybody likes to think the hard part is the writing part. Sheesh!

Date: 2008-07-25 06:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mrissa.livejournal.com
That's just it. Everybody wants to believe that if only they are good enough, none of the not-writing parts will touch them. And that's not true any more than virtue is universally rewarded in any other aspect of life.

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Date: 2008-07-25 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
The business side can be alternately delightful or harrowing. It requires a whole different set of skills. And I do sometimes wish that people realized that those are skills they personally need to go get if they're planning on doing this as a career.

Date: 2008-07-25 05:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pabba.livejournal.com
Wow, and I thought only mathy people got to say things like, "You've just been Primed!"

Thanks for sharing this though.

Date: 2008-07-25 11:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Hope it's helpful to others.

Date: 2008-07-25 06:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] samhenderson.livejournal.com
Oi. I am sorry you had that experience, and it's good to know that Griefcom dealt with it.

In the interest of data points, I have posted my (not at all dramatic) experience with Prime at my LJ.

Date: 2008-07-25 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Sam, thanks for making data -- I will make linky when I get home (this is a work computer, and slow, and really I ought not to be doing this at work).

Griefcom is a mighty thing. It was worth joining SFWA over, even if I drifted out in short order.

Date: 2008-07-25 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wirewalking.livejournal.com
Eh. I'm not sure how I've managed to land myself amongst the apparent happy minority of Prime authors who don't feel they've been shafted yet, but I hope I somehow have the good grace to stay there.

Oh right. And I hope nobody turns this into some kind of boycott. Ill-timed for me and my poor little book if they do. :D

Date: 2008-07-25 08:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] time-shark.livejournal.com
My own experience (one of my experiences) was that everything went great until my tiny little poetry book actually came out, and then I learned (more like deduced, as I was never told directly) that I would be mailing out all my own review copies and doing all my own promotion. I muddled through. Hopefully you won't have the same experience.

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Date: 2008-07-25 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cucumberseed.livejournal.com
OT, but I was really impressed by you at Readercon (I saw you in the very lively early-morning web zine panel), and am quite interested in checking out Ideomancer.

Date: 2008-07-25 11:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Oh, thank you! :) I was surprised how many people showed up at that panel, and how many people showed up smart. God knows I'm generally not smart at 10am on a Sunday.

Ideo is there for the taking, and we would love feedback!

Date: 2008-07-25 11:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] csinman.livejournal.com
Thanks for talking about this.

These anecdotes don't necessarily dissuade me from submitting to or purchasing from Prime/Wildside/Fantasy, but they give me a realistic idea of what to expect if I did business with them. I really appreciate that.

I also learned a lot about contracts by reading this. :)

Date: 2008-07-26 12:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
Realism is good. This is why we make with the data.

I really do wish -- and have for years -- that there was a good resource on contracts out there the same way there are resources on markets, cover letters, things like that. [livejournal.com profile] ccfinlay explained way back in the Stone Age that there isn't because that can constitute giving legal advice, and you don't want to be on the hook if that goes bad? But nonetheless. A gallery of model contracts, or something, would be really nice to have.

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Date: 2008-07-27 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-chrisbil.livejournal.com
I find all this surreal, but I have always had an awful opinion of said publishers since you were solicited for a novel whilst sitting outside Starbucks with me in Austin. I guess that is the one you mention? It was... pushy... weird. I tried to carry on the conversation we were having, and was completely pushed out of it, and when I tried to remain a part of the conversation you two were having, the level of "fuck off" vibe was uncomfortable. Not from you (or course!) but it has stuck with me since. I didn't think it worth mentioning and, I guess, was concerned about how professional it would look. Until this week.

Date: 2008-07-28 03:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahbobet.livejournal.com
This would be the same publisher, yes. And I wouldn't have taken it amiss at all if you'd mentioned it, but then, I have a certain kind of Canadian manners about most things (including people interrupting conversations).

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