Drowning Nor Waving

Heh, gotcha. Me too; perfectly decent people I just don't see the point of are another matter, and are in fact WHY I developed all these slightly Jesuitical social tricks -- because that is not their fault, and talking of geek social fallacies I have, and this is probably influencing my take on things quite a lot, been somewhat scarred by dealing with that segment of the Geek and general population that has serious difficulty with the fine gradients between 'honest' and 'brutal', and the idea that you don't extol the first to give yourself an excuse to be the second...